By Phil Riske, managing editor, Rose Law Group Reporter
A narcotic, academia and politics don’t mix when it comes to psychiatrist Sue Sisley’s fervent wish to have medical marijuana examined as a possible palliative for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
Dr. Sisley will soon have to leave her position at the University of Arizona, fired after Arizona Senator Kimberly Yee’s refusal to hold a hearing on the already federally approved study and the subsequent controversy surrounding it.
In the meantime, Sisley has filed a federal lawsuit alleging the firing violated her constitutional rights, and a veteran’s group says it will call on the Arizona Board of Regents for her reinstatement at the university.
In an e-mail interview with Rose Law Group Reporter, Sisley says she is “trying desperately to keep this out of court.”
(Edited only for clarity)
RLGR: We’ve heard comments that decisions designed to change directions at UA in many areas are going to have unintended consequences. Do you feel your firing was part of something bigger going on that could affect colleagues of yours?
Dr. Sisley:
Yes, it seems there are a string of casualties now resulting from this so-called “new direction. Piles of valued, devoted UA faculty members have been fired seemingly indiscriminately for some broader agenda which nobody knows about (except the administrators at the top levels of the UA food chain).
Are the physicians and staff with whom you work on a daily basis in your corner, and would they be at risk if they came out publicly against the university’s decision.
Yes, many of them seem to privately support me and constantly urge me NOT to give up, but my opinion is they would never be allowed to say anything publicly, or their jobs would be in jeopardy.
It seems to me that [UA President Ann] Hart and VP Terri Thompson, et al
have all successfully created a culture of fear that ensures few faculty members will ever feel comfortable to speak out.
In fact, we did not even have a UA faculty senate at the Phoenix biomedical campus. The only voice for UA faculty was in Tucson. So if you have an issue at the Phoenix campus, you had no voice, no framework to address those concerns.
I finally worked with the UA ombudsman’s office months ago attempting to share my concerns, but sadly, this fell on deaf ears with UA ombudsman’s unsuccessful attempts to bring all parties to the table. Not the fault of the ombudsman but the apparent apathy and disinterest from UA administration.
Could not the university have just killed the research without firing you?
Well they seemed to try to kill the MJ [medical marijuana] research for nearly two years, ever since I got my IRB [Institutional Board] aapproval back in October 2012. Initially the UA administration and attorneys insisted that this MJ research was illegal and claimed it violated state law. The law they cited was that recreational marijuana has been banned on all university campuses.
Despite my providing numerous external legal opinions confirming that the FDA [Federal Drug Administration] approved federally regulated research was legal and it superseded state laws, they continued to reject all requests to find a space to conduct this vital work.
UA seemed to know that, without a location, I could not proceed. Everything was hinging upon finding a specific site. I could not even finalize my DEA [Drug Enforcement Administration] Schedule 1 license until the DEA could come and inspect a specific location on campus. So they effectively shut down the MJ research that way for nearly 2 years, but suddenly I started talking to the media.
The UA asked me to refrain from speaking to the media. I became more open about the obstructions that were occurring here at the local UA level.
I finally offered to help organize a legislative bill because I realized that UA would continue to drag its feet. The UA now says that they “championed”this bill, but they were very reluctant partners in the coalition until the 11th hour, when they saw that the bill had near unanimous support because legislators all realize that this was simply a reaffirmation of existing law.
Suddenly, UA jumped on the bandwagon, even testifying at a couple hearings.
Its bottom line was this bill was unnecessary and a waste of taxpayer dollars, simply to appease some misinformed UA attorneys and administratos who believe this MJ research was illegal, and many still believe it, despite the bill passing.
I recorded a conference call that the UA begrudgingly set up with me to finally identify a possible location for the study back in April 2014 after this giant fallout from the media uncovered that UA was stonewalling the study.
There were repeated concerns expressed on this call about having veterans with PTSD roaming around the campus possibly interacting with their students.
I explained to them that over nearly 20 years of caring for veterans, I’ve never once felt unsafe around these veterans.
It seemed clear that they could never accept the optics of having veterans smoking and vaporizing marijuana on campus.
Their comments on the recording confirmed these UA administrators were striving to push it to the very outskirts of the campus where nobody would ever see it.
No legislators, no donors, etc. They certainly could not have administration of MJ study drug occurring in the same building where the dean was housed.
I pointed out miles of empty office space all throughout the UA Phoenix biomedical campus, all created and supported by taxpayers thart could’ve easily been used to house this research. All we needed was a simple office with the ventilation hood and an empty corner where we could install a giant safe, bolted to the ground under a 24/7 alarm system. That was the only requirements from the DEA. Simple, nothing fancy.
Did you ever get to discuss the research directly with Sen. Yee or any member of the Legislature?
Never, I attempted to call Yee several times, and she did call back once but it was phone tag. Never had an actual conversation. And then, the Yee recall effort was launched by the veterans.
Suddenly, enemies of this MJ research attempted to tie me into the veteran activism, as if I were the Pied Piper of these radicalized veterans. That was never the case.
VP/UA lobbyist Tim Bee confronted me at the mayor’s State of the City luncheon and demanded that I get the veterans to back off. When I explained that I don’t control the veterans, and they are allowed to exercise their civil rights, he seemed to storm off.
I was never participating in the recall effort. Yes, I did denounce Sen. Yee’s decision to kill the bill (HB2333). But that doesn’t mean I ever felt it was a good use of taxpayer dollars to hold a special election when we had a primary election coming up in August. Again, I never joined the recall effort. That was organized by a veteran-led committee called AVAC.
Have you heard any reaction from the UA administration to the Department of Health Services decision to include PTSD in qualified illnesses for medical marijuana treatment?
Not really. They now tried to claim that they’ve always been a champion for adding PTSD, and their public statement said something about a UA committee from public health department urged the health department to add PTSD. Again, my opinion is here’s another example of the UA misleading the public. This committee had been the major blockade for adding PTSD over the past three years. They constantly set the bar at an unattainable level where nobody would be able to ever add any new qualifying conditions.
By demanding randomized controlled trials of efficacy research, which they knew full well is relentlessly blocked in the United States, they shut down any possibility of meeting that bar.
Research into efficacy of whole plant marijuana is systematically impeded in the U.S., and the UA committee continues to use an unattainable bar as its criteria for adding new qualifying conditions. Sad.
One person’s opinion is not scientific research, but do you believe marijuana helps people with PTSD?
I have no idea. But I am determined to find the answer to that question.
That’s why it’s so important to study whole plant marijuana in a rigorous controlled environment. Yes, I’ve heard mountain of anecdotal evidence from patients (and veterans) themselves. But it’s time to allow this plant to go through the proper FDA drug development process and answer these questions in a truly objective manner
If you win your lawsuit and are reinstated, would you return or would you seek an opportunity where the research could be conducted?
If UA reinstated me today, I would be back at the University of Arizona implementing this vets research. That’s because UA is my home.
I graduated from UA Medical School in 1995 and had a wonderful experience there.
I continue to be a devoted UA supporter as a donor, as a member of Wildcat for Life Alumni Association and as a faculty member in excellent standing since 2007.
The study was born in Arizona and should stay here. These veterans who have been fighting with us to help overcome each of these onerous barriers deserve an opportunity to be screened for the study and participate if desired (or help refer some of their other brothers and sisters-in-arms).
This is not personal but has always been about getting the work done. I would have no qualms about returning to UA and focusing on implementing the most impeccable study protocol possible.
What will you do while the lawsuit proceeds?
I’ve made it clear to every reporter I’ve spoken to that I am trying desperately to keep this out of court and save the Arizona taxpayers the cost of university/[Arizona Board of Regents] having to mount a giant legal defense.
I’ve told everyone for the past month that my goal is to negotiate with the university and the regents to find a simple solution to this (short of having to go to court).
Of course, I’ve made it equally clear that I’m not afraid to take this all the way if necessary. I have a very well-resourced legal team with experts from across the nation working pro bono. This could go on for years.
Have you ever smoked marijuana?
Never smoked marijuana, nor tried marijuana in any form. I’ve never used any street drugs or other illicit drugs. I don’t even drink alcohol. I prefer not to alter my consciousness in any way. That’s my personal approach to life.
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